Monday, October 16, 2006

Free Shoaib! Free Asif!

I know I said no more cricket talk, but like a smoker who's quitting who needs one last drag, I just want to say one thing: I can't believe that they intentionally took anything to build muscle or become stronger. They're not stupid (well, Asif isn't anyway). I just can't believe that they would knowingly inject something or take some pill, ala Barry Bonds. Whatever happened was probably a result of the various treatments they've undergone recently for their injuries. And Bob Woolmer agrees with me, so there.

Now, there's no more cricket talk. Promise.

54 comments:

nikhil said...

but that isn't the point at all. as YOU said earlier:

"One thing that should be made clear is that fact that steroids aren't just used for muscle building. In other words, "But Asif is skinny" is not a defense. A lot of the time, steroids are used to get over injuries faster. Both Shoaib and Asif have had a number of injuries in the last 5 months. I'm just saying..."

they could very easily have known about that - and of course woolmer would agree with you, no coach sells his team down the river. it's impossible for you to be logical on this subject - please stick to your promise and not write about this anymore.

also, farooq - please stop impersonating me.

F-Machine said...

ya but there's another point too.. that no professional cricketer could be stupid enough to take those drugs when they are aware that these spot checks by teh ICC are happening..

I think what happened was part of the rehabilitation process.. so the drug test identified substance not caused by the steroid.. or the steroids were given by the trainers without the players fully understanding the ramifications

Nikhil said...

I am gay

Ahsan said...

im not denying that they took the drugs, dammit. im denying that they willingly and knowingly took the drugs. there is a difference, although its debatable if the difference matters at all. as f-machine (really farooq? f-machine?) said, they were probably given the drugs by trainers or whatever.

im not saying they shouldnt get banned, for the record. perhaps my "free shoaib! free asif!" heading was, uh, slightly misleading in that regard.

nikhil said...

thank you for the implicit apology.

and farooq, saying "that no professional cricketer could be stupid enough to take those drugs when they are aware that these spot checks by teh ICC are happening.." is not really valid because athletes do it all the time. floyd landis is the latest in a long, long list - and in his sport, the drug checks are mandatory - not random. marion jones, her husband, the canadian guy who briefly held the 100m world record in 88 (ben johnson?), that asafa (sp?) powell fellow, and of course, the most relevant of them all...shane warne, all took steroids for different reasons.

this call-back by the pcb is a really smart move because now they get to decide the punishment - which i think will be 6mths to 1 year.

honestly, if i had to guess what happened, woolmer found out that asif and akhtar had taken these stupid steroids, or maybe he suspected it, which is why he initiated the damn drug test idea in the first place so that the pcb would have control over how the two should be punished and not the ICC.

and if all else fails, just blame RAW.

Anonymous said...

f-machine is faraz. He wants to have a security blanket if his jokes fall flat or if L2 pulverize his arguments.

Farooq said...

anonymous back there was me, farooq.

Ahsan said...

no i dont think RAW had anything to do with it. i think it was more a collaboration between indian doctors and indian computer geeks. they fucked up the samples, and somehow hacked in to the technology that tests the samples, and gave it a positive when it should have been a negative. what, you think its a coincidence that it was our two best bowlers who were caught? why werent farhat and faisal iqbal rounded up, huh? you indians are too smart, thats why. you've been working on this ever since we destroyed you in karachi (329 runs from what i remember). poor asif...a victim of indian aggression. now he knows what kashmiris and bengalis feel like.

Farooq said...

Lets NOT blame RAW.

Wrestling has learnt its lesson after the untimely death of Eddie Guerrero, a mexican wrestler known for his high flying style of combat and his finishing move the five star frogsplash.

However, more than any other athlete, it is wrestlers who could come close to justifying the consumption of such drugs. Wrestling, unlike ANY other activity, is year around. There are no breaks and no off seasons. Unlike basket-ball , you dont stroll up and down the length of a glorified patio. Yes its fake but they DO take bumps on a mat and they do absorb stiff punches. Try fallig down again and again on a thin matress pad over a wooden floor - after 2 or 3 goes, it is going to hurt.

These guys need these drugs to survive. There SHOULD be an off-season or they're all going to whither away like big boss man, mr perfect and countless other legends.

Farooq said...

Did anyone notice that Asif was markedly more agressive ever since his return. Full getting into everyone's face and laghing at Pietersen's attempts to slog himself out of bunny status. But that could just be the result of all the limelight on him.

f-machine said...

f-machine answers to no one. in time his identity will be revealed

Nikhil said...

I am gay

f-machine said...

well yeah I know athletes do it all the time but I think a lot of the times they are hoping not to get caught either by masking it or by hoping it gets flushed out..

anyways im just presenting a possibility.. I think the risk vs. the reward in cricket is much higher as compared to athletics. There is a much higher skill level involved and the risk, in my opinion, and hopefully in shoaib's and asif's doesn't merit the meagre reward of a bit of strength and stamina

Ahsan said...

shut up farooq, we know its you. f-machine is a really dumb name, for the record.

f-machine said...

Stop speaking of my name in a condescending tone. I thought this blog was to be a beacon of light liberating those stuck in the dark shackles of conservative thought (religious -- especially Muslims). What happened to freedom of thought (or choosing one's screenname) ?

Ahsan said...

choose your id, however you want. but then dont say its faraz: f-machine is faraz. He wants to have a security blanket if his jokes fall flat or if L2 pulverize his arguments.
and please dont try to convince me that your choosing "f-machine" as a moniker is in any way related to a purported backlash against conservative religous thought.

nikhil said...

i think you may be mistaken in your farooq-bashing. from reading these comments, i feel like f-machine may indeed be faraz.

Ahsan said...

well if that were true, faraz is really going out of his way to make f-machine look like farooq. consider (a) that at 8:32pm fiverupees time, there are two posts, one from f-machine and one from "nikhil", the latter of which of course profess to "nikhils" homosexuality; (b)the same episode repeats itself at 9:27pm, fiverupees time, with the added evidence of "f-machine answers to no one. in time his identity will be revealed", which surely sounds more like farooq than faraz; (c) the 9:51 pm post by f-machine sounds exactly like farooq as well.

Faraz said...

I think my identity (or lack thereof) has sparked enough of a rucus on here that I deserve my own blog topic.. what say fellow bloggers?

Nikhil said...

I am gay

Conservative Asshole said...

The jews did it.

Progressive Liberal said...

Wow! This blog is great! Maybe we should become ten rupees!

nikhil said...

actually, i would beg to differ. since the "i am gay" joke is not very funny and quite repetitive, i would attribute it more to faraz than farooq. as for c), that could very easily be faraz too - farooq is generally either really, really bizarre, or quite serious - this medium level of absurdity is more faraz's style. also, farooq doesn't use parentheses that much.

btw, please read farooq's comment on Alien Panda's "The Jews Did It" post.

Ahsan said...

very interesting, will respond to it in depth tonight. which means the preview is pushed back a day further, but nobody cares about that anyway.

F-Machine said...

"since the "i am gay" joke is [...] quite repetitive"

That's the funny part jackass

Nikhil said...

I am gay

Ahsan said...

dude, are we talking about the same people? are you suggesting that farooq is not repetitive? dude, ive been hearing the same jokes since 2003. and so have YOU. ive been in the same room on many occasions where he has made the same joke, or some variant of it, at your expense for the 1000th time.

i also dont agree about farooq being defined by 2 extremes. he has a middle ground too. i will say that faraz is like farooq lite, as they have the same brand of humour, and his bad jokes arent as bad as farooqs bad ones and his good jokes arent as good as farooqs good ones. but to say farooq only has 2 extremes? im amazed that you said that, seriously.

either way, i really dont give a crap which one of them is making this lameass nikhil is gay joke. i think we need to end this thread, as its almost at 30 posts, about 3 of which actually had to with the fiverupees post theyre supposed to be responding to.

f-machine said...

Ahsan, I think we should let disagreement take its natural course without imposing artificial caps. And you can't say that repetition makes a joke less funny. I say in many cases it makes it funnier. Regardless, the point is that one person could find Farooq's or Farooq-Lite's repetition upsetting while another could find it absolutely side-splitting. Doesn't that encapsulate the very essence of progressive liberalism that five rupees stands for?

Nikhil said...

I am gay

f-machine said...

After watching Shoaib's reaction I'm almost convinced though that they haven't taken anything intentionally. A report on Cricinfo suggests that traces of Nandrolone can be found in legal protein shakes and medicine. So my view is that they were told by their doctors that so and so protein shake will speed up your rehabilitation. The doctors either knew and chose to ignore the risk or were careless as were the players and didn't bother to check for banned substances.

I don't know whether that is what happened but I bet that is the story that the PCB is going to present and fine the players for being careless. If there is a ban it will be minor. Even if the substance abuse was deliberate it will be covered up because inspite of all our big hue and cry about transparency and integrity, Pakistanis will be Pakistanis.

f-machine said...

I was tempted to follow up with a 'I am gay' message but I've been shamed into maturity by Nikhil's condescendicity (condescendation?)

f-machine said...

"The eye-witness, who had come to see the matches from the United States and was at the hotel to meet the players that day, also claimed that he saw Azhar Mahmood, the former Pakistan all-rounder, sitting in Mohammad Yousuf’s room where Yousuf, Shoaib Malik, Shahid Afridi and Rana Naved-ul-Hasan were busy playing cards.

He saw Azhar passing on two small boxes, used for storing naswar, to the players.

According to the eye-witness, Afridi took one box which had naswar inside it while the other box containing the cannabis — a dried preparation or resinous extract made from a plant used generally illegally as a psychotropic drug — was passed on to Asif."

When it rains it truly pours!

And Afridi took the niswar box?? What a maila!!

f-machine said...

Ok question. And you can make this a blog topic if you want Ahsan


If it turns out that Shoaib and Asif took the drugs knowingly, what punishment would you recommend? Would you cover it up and slap a token fine and a short ban? Or would you impose a long ban and effectively end Shoaib's career, damage Asif's, and seriously weaken the team.

All Indians on the board please consider what you would do if Dravid and Pathan were in the same position.

nikhil said...

I'll give you the Pathan comparison, but Dravid and Shoaib cannot be compared.
I would say Tendulkar is closest...maybe.

Although, I think this situation is very hard to compare across countries because shit like this is almost expected from Pakistani cricket: The ball-tampering, the pitch-tampering, the inability of your captain to grasp the rules, appointing three captains in two days, chairman of the board resigning...it all leads to people not being surprised by anything. It's almost like the board has to impose a somewhat decently harsh penalty to give any sort of credence to Pakistani cricket. But, that being said, there's no way either of them is banned for any significant length of time. I'd say maybe 1-year, shortened to six months after an appeal.

Lastly - two new stories about Sharyar Khan suspecting Shoaib's steroid use for 2 years, and the whole weed / snuff thing come out 1-2 days after the largest doping scandal in cricket (or second, depending on your take on the warne episode), and is anyone, anyone at all, the least bit surprised?

Anonymous said...

Oh - and i guarantee you the board will never say they took the drugs knowingly, even though i'm pretty fcking sure they did - it was probably a part of their daily training regimen.

Ahsan said...

first of all equating pathan with asif is like equating alessandra ambrosio with the fat woman who worked at the welch cafeteria.

secondly, your question is a difficult one to answer because im torn. but if they knowingly and willingly took it, then id say 2 yrs for both. its tough but youd have to do it, because cheating is cheating, and drugs are about as egregious as you can get.

Ahsan said...

as for these stories, i dont buy any of them. they're all a load of horseshit, with people just looking to pile on now that they have something to pile on.

f-machine said...

Ok well the comparison wasn't meant to be exact. I did the best I could without spending half an hour on it. But you get what I mean right?

f-machine said...

Is testing only done at the Champions Trophy? How could he possibly have done drugs for two years (I don't put it past him) without being detected anywhere else?

Ahsan said...

no, as far as i know, testing is not just done at the ICCCT. thats why i think all these other bullshit stories are just that...bullshit. if anything happened steroids-wise, it happened on the england tour. but im really not prepared to believe (a) that hes been doing it for a long time and nobody knew and (b) that they smoked week out in public in england. i love our public man...the minute they feel they have license to start bullshitting, they start. shame on dawn for printing the story. when it boils down to it, they have one, let me repeat, one UNNAMED witness, who says hes a fan. how credible is that? i really hate our media sometimes...they have a seriously hard time sticking to the story. the story is bad enough without us piling on this other shit, without evidence.

f-machine said...

Well apparently Shahryar Khan was quoted as saying that he's suspected Shoaib for two years now. I haven't found the quote, only a reference to it but I'll dig around tonight.

nikhil said...

Drug testing is ONLY DONE AT THE WC and THE ICCCT by the ICC - check it before you authoritatively state things (and don't you dare say the "as far as I know" is a suitable caveat - because everyone here knows it isnt). And even then, it's not done on everyone - just 2 from each team.

http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc/media/iccct2004mis/drugs_tribunal.html

There's no way it's ever going to be admitted they took them knowingly. and there's no way they're getting 2 years - that's what the ICC imposes - no way the pcb voluntarily imposes that length of a fine - especially since aus didnt do it to warne. and no, he wasnt caught by the icc either, it was the aussie cricket board.

Ahsan said...

what the fuck does "suspected" mean? i could suspect that the world is made up of tiny soap bubbles, but it wouldnt make it true, would it? if he suspected anything, he could have/should have put in a drug test earlier. and like i said, im fairly sure the ICC has regular drug tests, though perhaps not as regular as other sports.

Anonymous said...

read what has come before, jackass.

Ahsan said...

the last champions trophy was 2 yrs ago, dickhead. if he was using drugs for 2 yrs, he could have been caught then too. how do you know which players were tested and which werent?

also, my suggestion for 2 yrs is what i WOULD do. not what i think will happen. read the fucking question jackass. "if it turns out that Shoaib and Asif took the drugs knowingly, what punishment would you recommend? Would you cover it up and slap a token fine and a short ban? Or would you impose a long ban and effectively end Shoaib's career, damage Asif's, and seriously weaken the team."
choot.

Anonymous said...

he had no reason to stir up a hornet's nest unless absolutely necessary, i.e. one of his player's gettnig caught by the ICC. it's why woolmer suddenly woke up and said "oh shit, i may lose my two best bowlers for at least 2 years - i better do this here and now so i only lose them for 6-12 months."

stop letting the fact that you're pakistani disallow you from looking at things impartially.

you of all people.

Ahsan said...

why was it "absolutely necessary"? if hes been caught now, what does he gain from saying hes been suspecting shoaib for 2 yrs? id like to read a direct quote from a reputable source before i believe anything.

im not being partial. i said less than 30 mins ago that i would ban them for 2 yrs each if its proven that they took it willingly and knowingly. im only doubting (a) these naswar and chars stories that come out of the woodwork whenever something like this happens and (b) all the innuendo about shoaib before the england tour. present me with real evidence, and ill take away each of my assertions with a personal apology. before then, dont waste my time.

Anonymous said...

my comment on the two years wasn't attacking yours in any way - it was a follow-up, in that it will never happen, regardless of what should. why must you always be acrimonious?

and you were WRONG about the ICC drug testing, at least be man enough to fucking own up to it. you jump all over people for the tiniest of errors, and yet, when your arguments contain glaring incaccuracies, you don't have the decency to accept fault.

Also, this is the FIRST champions trophy at which they are testing - the last time was at the World Cup in South Africa.


and the "absolutely necessary" has nothing to do with what he said - it has more to do with what he did (or did not do).


you know what, in all seriousness, arguing with you is a completely pointless exercise simply because of how incredibly dismissive you are of other people's statements.


it's been fun.

Ahsan said...

wait, i say "as far as i know testing is not just done at the ICCCT". you turn around and say that statement is me "authoritatively stating" something or the other (i dont even know what). how was i wrong in saying its "fairly regular". wouldnt you classify every 2 yrs as fairly regular?

you then take MY recommendation for I WOULD do to the two of them, and turn around and say the PCB would never do that, thereby completely arguing right past me.

and as far as the "absolutely necessary" is concerned, my view was that it was NOT "absolutely necessary" for him to say anything about suspicions about shoaib. if anything, it makes HIM look bad, because it makes it look like he went all this time allowing shoaib to do whatever he wanted. nevertheless, like i said, get me a direct quote, and ill say i was wrong on the blog itself, not this dumass comments section. but not until then.

Ahsan said...

for the record, the BBC says that shoaibs doctor says hes been seeing a hakim. you will recall the last time one of our players was seeing this type of person, razzaq almost died because he only ate spinach or something like that. the doctor says its possible that hakim gave him something.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/6057724.stm

Anonymous said...

Again, you refuse to READ.

you say:
"wait, i say "as far as i know testing is not just done at the ICCCT". you turn around and say that statement is me "authoritatively stating" something or the other (i dont even know what). how was i wrong in saying its "fairly regular". wouldnt you classify every 2 yrs as fairly regular?"

As I said before - this is the FIRST Champions Trophy it's being done at. The last time was at the World Cup in South Africa. Before that? Never. That's not regular.

I don't have the energy to argue with you about the rest - you haven't bothered to read what i've written before, just skim. So I'm not going to waste my time (or yours, as you so pointedly state) any further.

Ahsan said...

really? its the first time its been done at the champions trophy? ok, then read this:

During the Champions Trophy, two World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) personnel will conduct tests —two players in each team per match. The ICC has been conducting dope tests on a trial basis since the 2002 Champions Trophy but this is officially being done in a cricket tournament for the first time after the ICC signed the WADA code in July.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/14824.html

In conclusion, this is NOT the first time. It is the first time its been done UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE WADA. A drug test is a drug test is a drug test. Urine samples are taken and sent to labs.
So who's wrong now?

Anonymous said...

Fine, I was wrong, apologies - I misread the ICC press release - they've done it since 2002 at ICC events, i.e. 1 world cup and 2 champions trophies.

Doesn't change the fact that it hasn't been done since Sept. 2004, a little over two years ago.

However, what you said was:
"no, as far as i know, testing is not just done at the ICCCT. thats why i think all these other bullshit stories are just that...bullshit."

Which makes your point, umm, bullshit.

Ahsan said...

thank you for your apology.

your second point is an issue of clarity, not veracity. i should have been clearer when i said "all these bullshit stories". the bullshit stories, in my opinion, are (a) sk had suspicions about shoaib for 2 yrs and (b) ma and sa smoked weed in england. if (a) was really true, sk would not have had to rely on ICC mandated drug tests, he could have carried out a test whenever he wanted. and if, as you suggest (and i agree with you on this) that it was in fact woolmer who first suspected something, well woolmers been around since mid 04. he could have asked for a drug test any time if he suspected anything, which he did eventually.
(b) is based on the testimony of one unnamed witness who says hes a fan. theres nothing more to add on that.

i really dont want to argue more on this. i feel like a lawyer (no offense NB and alien panda) arguing about shit that really doesnt matter. the bottom line is theyre out of the team because theyve taken drugs. for how long remains to be seen and is a matter of speculation. bus, khatam.