Sunday, October 11, 2009

If The Armenians And Turks Can Sign A Peace Deal, Anyone Can

Come on, Israelis and Palestinians, Indians and Pakistanis, Americans and Iranians. Learn some lessons here.


Ribosome said...

Come on, Pakistan stop attacking us, then we'll sign a peace deal.

Jaydev,India said...

Musharraf claims in Agra? summit that hostility with India will continue even after "Kashmir" issue is resolved. Indian Embassy is targeted the second time...LeT,Rawalpindi HQ etc wants to capture Red it will be better you preach to your military-political ppl instead.

foolsparadise said...

Once a "HOT" chick in "kya aap Paanchvi paas se tez hai" (Star Plus / SRK) was asked, what is the capital of Pakistan? and she answered Istanbul ;-) (oops).
Given "her beauty with no brains" credits, I also felt people (Specially youth in India) are not Pak centric at all, its kind of a boring/LS talk/topic if you try to initiate in a group or college goers or in a hangout, people wont take you as a patriotic or a better citizen at all and least of that, Girls will never give you a second look if you talk LET ;-) or get impressed, how great macho man(soldier) you are ;-).

I think there is a difference in our part of animosity(good or bad, no no I am not divorced yet, but my wife also hates me, when I talk about Pakistan), we simply don't want to be related.

Ahsan said...

Wow, you really can't make a half joke with our readers.

Anyway, on the substance of your comments, I find it quite strange that none of you think India is even slightly responsible for the poisoned relations on the subcontinent. As if India has never tried to damage Pakistan and its national interests. You basically imply that if only Pakistan were to get its house in order, then there would be peace in South Asia. That, I am afraid, is a necessary condition, not a sufficient condition, as evinced by the troubled relations India has had with each of its neighbors at some point in time.

foolsparadise said...

Ashan, I tried to be as humurous as you were (my bad, sorry)

This "India has had with each of its neighbors at some point in time" is a very common notion/line, you could find in tons of sources is essentially a chicken & egg situation, but you may disagree. The issue here is, Pakistan (and only Pakistan out of other neighbors) simply ran out of number times it could use it? NO?
(who the hell is buying this??)

Well, to the limit, that even in KLB its mentioned now that Govt of Pakistan must maintain good relations with neighbors (both Afghanistan & India)& notions like India is "NOT" a threat but Taliban is on several occasions around the world.

15 min ago, I was watching (still working on my project :-) & saw your comment also) Mr. Huqqani with Fareed Zakaria on CNN, he was asked the same question and he answered, "Many in Pakistan are angry on India", tell me should I laugh,cry or something else? Joke?

Ahsan said...

Let me just leave it at this: India has done its fair share of destabilization aimed at Pakistan with both violent and non-violent methods. More than Pakistan? No, but then it didn't need to be, given India is bigger and more powerful.

A one-eyed view of history and politics gets you nowhere.

foolsparadise said...

Chicken & Egg again :-).
Sorry dude, pardon my knowledge of history, please point me few incidents of Indian hostility towards Pakistani people, govt of Pakistan & Pakistani Armed forces.
of least, I will utilize my Sunday Google them :-)

foolsparadise said...

I am sorry if you don't want to discuss, I tried by myself,

1> I goggled this 'atrocities done by India to Pakistan"

This returns Kashmir pakdefence forums with endless discussions & then Pakistan's Atrocity in Swat :-)

2> Then I searched this

Same search contents as above

All it says "Pak to rake up K-world in UN".

3> The I searched "India & Pakistan hostilities"

Again Kashmir, Kargil, 1971 war

but nothing like "Mumbai Attack", "Operation Gibraltar","Kargil", "terrorism as foreign policy tool","Nuclear Proliferation","Taliban Training camps","Strategic depth" & new a new phrase "LOOK EAST POLICY, LINK:".

I am seriously Interested in knowing what an average Pakistani thinks is done Wrong by India? If you could help.

If you think my posting are inappropriate and spam on you blog, please remove them.


dudelove said...

foolsparadise, didn't India's perfect-record-vs-pak-in-50-50-cricket-world-cup come up in google about heartless indian hostility towards pak? other than that i would probably also count the cheesy bollywood flicks of brave indian heroes taking on the whole pak army/proxies single handedly. but nothing more. seriously ahsan, have we been worse than that to you? as for our neghbours, the chinkies don't count since they are all cold blooded Dr. Dans who wouldn't be friendly to a furry panda cub (for god's sake they ship escaping north koreans back to north korea to die). But bangla, sri lanka, nepal, burma etc have never been too queasy with india. infact they seem to have had pretty good relations for greater length of our shared history.

Ahsan said...

Um, right. Two quick examples before I'm on my way. First, at independence, India refused to hand over material and monies that were supposed to go to Pakistan, in effect trying to cripple the state before it was born. In 1971, India (a) trained, armed and financed Mukti Bahini and then (b) stepped in with its own military to split the state. I could recite more examples (on water issues, for example) but given you lot seem to think India has a perfect record of amicability toward Pakistan -- a truly delusional picture if there ever was one -- my time is likely to be wasted in such ventures.

Ahsan said...

Also, Bangladesh and SL have never been queasy with India? Wow.

foolsparadise said...

Look Ahsan, you are a terrific talented guy, I have read all (most) your posts (even archives) and I agree with you 99% time, among that 1% which I deliberately left aside is for this last posting (yes I am blogging from my office ;-) ), I will just summaries with a single line "if we can take logic above of transactional dispute & sovereignty of country and mending in your internal affairs, take a scale out and measure, I bet you will find "Uncle Sam"(who is your best ally right now) as your #1 enemy (and #2 yourself & #3 any tom, dick & harry state, because they are made for this) not India(particularly) for sure and further if you want to substantiate the losses you incurred, I even don't need to say a word there then" As an individual Indian I respect your thoughts and your beloved Nation, all I expect (as an Indian & stated above in my 1st post), "we(Indians) just don't want to be related".

Jadev,India said...

SL-LTTE and Bangladesh-Mukti Bahni..
both were started due to refugee crisis..i.e. refugees pouring into India in millions? genocide(Tamil and Bengali Muslims)..In any case..with the independence of Pak itself it send Afridis, Mehsuds to launch "freedom struggle"..before Mukti Bahni itself..Pak was sponsoring Naga rebels..with usual terror training..
Pak got a legal leg in the door in "Kashmir Dispute" is coz instead of driving out Pak army+irregulars..Nehru went to UN for JUSTICE....

Faiza said...

Reading the above just made me laugh at the irony of your post getting the comments it got. It kind of made its point. Never mind Ahsan, we're in line after the Israelis and Palestinians. ;)

karachi khatmal said...


i seriously hope your hard drive is fixed, cuz this news aggregator style blogging is so not the reason i turn to five rupees so regularly.

at least you are fighting the good fight on the comments front.

don't mind the indians though, they are right. when you become so powerful, the view on history can easily become your perogrative. thus the indian position during 1971 can be argued as humanitarian now, even though i really doubt indira was shooting for the peace prize when it happened. sorry, but economic and political lightweights usually get ignored in historical accuracy debates.

finally, the worst thing india has done to pakistan and the world in general (yes, it's worse than genocide) = ajit agarkar.

Ahsan said...


Blogging is light not just b/c my hard drive is fucked, but also because I have very little time this quarter. But I am trying my best.

As for the substance, yes, you are right. For instance, the Americans call their drive across the continent "manifest destiny". I'm pretty sure Native Americans prefer to call it "genocide".

It is puzzling though that Indians think their country walks around with a halo over its head. They really do believe that India is a perfectly peaceful and non-aggressive state, and all that we need for peace is for everyone to shut up and realize that.

Anonymous said...

@ fools paradise and jadev

The next thing you will tell us is that the only reason India has 8 embassies in Afghanistan is to promote Indian values and culture in that god forsaken shit hole.

foolsparadise said...

@Dear Ahsan:
I know yours was a half joke and I stretched it up but its done is done:
The American story is completely out of frame here, the situation (my opinion) is other way around, Pakistanis are more inward looking in to Indian Society rather Indians are.

"everyone to shut up and realize that" common, not at all, is so untrue, look for the video of KAPPSTH above(again), she doesn't even know the diff between Istanbul and Islamabad (and I am sure, even if you "YouTube" something like "dumb Indians", you would find tons of those who has no thoughts whatsoever for Pakistan as a state at least) .

@Dear KK: Ajit Agarkar is yours, you can take him home ;-)

@Dear Ano:
Thanks !! Right we have 8 embassies, probably you also know the names also, but I truly don't and I bet 80% Indians wont also know that even we have 8 embassies in Afghanistan, and 80% would not even know what language Pashto is?
That's what my point is. We don't do discuss these things when we are sitting in a college gang or in offices or anywhere else
Do they teach you these things in 5th grade or you keep one eye always in India? how do you know so much about India???????
(for Pakistan, Ahasn can probably tell better, at least 40% of hits on google news is from Afghanistan & Pakistan, and I am also a new bee here, I really did not knew there is a place on earth called SWAT say 6 months ago)

My question essentially is :
Why Pakistanis in general are so India centric?

probably, second would be, can you find one Pakistani on earth, who did not talked/looked about any thing Indian for a Day?

By the way 2 more things,

1> Indian and Pakistan both have 8-8 embassies across the streets in the same cities in Afghanistan(just 2 blocks here and there, just googled it nothing else).

2> Did you know we are the only second country (after USA)to have an air base in Tajikistan, right above you ass ;-), do your math properly, again your friend google .

dude Ahsan, I am bringing you lot of hits? fun? agree?

Jaydev,India said...

About come Pak have a say in how much consulates we can open in Afghanistan when Govt of Afghanistan has no problems(which is recognized by all the countries)? In case of Taliban only UAE,Saud and Pak recognised it remember!!.We too are pissed off at Chinese listening posts in Myanmar..we don't issue a demarche for that..coz that is their sovereign right to do so..Of course some of the consulates have intelligence gathering mission..since most of terror camps are now being shifted to Waziristan/tribal areas to appease Americans.Besides India have 3000-4000 citizens working construction activities in different parts of Afganistan and close to a billion in strategic a liason office is definitely necessary for each regions.Dont see any harm in it. Also there is no evidence of large scale destabilization of Pak via Balochistan except may be normal "election support" funding(BLA,BRA is mainly funded by US,UK and OMAN)..which you guys do with Hurriyat quite openly..Pak FO says we have to justify our presence coz we dont share common borders..what a fuked up argument is that..tell that to US who is a 1000s of miles away from Pak not sharing any common borders with Afghanistan..

Naqiya said...

there are only two explinations for whats gonig on here:
-i'm really high right now
-the commentors have smoked some serious shit before they started typing. like really really serious shit

far said...

@Jaydev & foolsparadise:
It takes two to tango.

dudelove said...

everyone's in on strategic games. only pakistan seems to be so sore about not being good at it as to want to destroy india. if only they would choose people with greater brain mass instead of the inbred fucks that abound it. until people think alike about what a modern country should be like, and not what common fetish they have for bollywood trash would there be hope for the two countries.

monday said...

Well the guy above is just making up false stories...i mean cmon; firstly there arent any hot chicks in india! (they import a few from the west)

secondly, he really sees india a post-modern world, where people dont talk about thiose same old hackneyed tales. yeah yeah we'd rather talk about gay rights shant we, oh wait! Shit, we just ate the COW!


Anonymous said...

"It is puzzling though that Indians think their country walks around with a halo over its head. They really do believe that India is a perfectly peaceful and non-aggressive state, and all that we need for peace is for everyone to shut up and realize that."

WOW! You are sounding like an Indian hater. If you start writing comments like that and indulge in mud slinging game, then what is the difference between your blog and other Pakistani blogs. We visit your blog as a reader not to belittle Pakistan or to eulogize India but to enjoy reading your posts. I always used to admire your blog coz of its balanced posts not coz of anti India posts. Thanks for clearing up my confusion.